Ethical Question

[avram]

There’s a classic late-night dorm bull session-type question: If you had a time machine, would you go back and kill Hitler, thus preventing the Holocaust? There some assumptions buried in this question — Would killing Hitler actually prevent the Holocaust? Let’s assume that it would. Or rather, let’s assume that Hitler was somehow so intrinsic to how German politics went that if he was removed from it, the Holocaust (and maybe even World War 2) wouldn’t have happened. Let’s also ignore the various other things you’d probably do with a time machine — follow Jesus around with a camcorder; give your younger self stock tips; buy up lots of Action Comics #1, Uncanny X-Men #92; and alpha Black Lotuses and Mox gems; give Jefferson some tips on how to phrase the Bill of Rights.

So, is killing Hitler the right thing to do? Easy answer: Of course not. Why? Because killing Hitler isn’t the least harmful way of removing him from politics. It may be the easiest, just one quick gunshot and it’s over, but if you're willing to put in some time and effort, you could just follow him around making sure that he gets caught in enough embarrassing screwups that his political career never gets anywhere. Or you could use some of the fortune you’ve amassed with all your time travelling and become the young Hitler’s art patron. I suppose the question gets more interesting if the time machine only allows you one round trip. But even with just one trip you could probably prevent the Reichstag fire.

But for me, there’s a far more interesting question. See, my mother’s family comes from Germany and Hungary, and they didn’t get to the States till after the war. My dad’s family was in the US. Muck about too much with European history and my parents might never meet; I get edited right out of the timestream. So here’s the bull session question for the rest of you: Imagine yourselves with my family history; would you prevent the Holocaust if it meant you, yourself would never have existed?

Comments

Killing Hitler

[(Anonymous)]

I've always liked the idea of stealing *baby* Hitler and leaving him on the doorstep of some monastery on the other side of the world.

Would I prevent the Holocaust even if it wiped me from the timestream? Yes, with barely a second thought.

Fred

Re: Killing Hitler

[avram]

So you'd kill him, nothing stayed you,
Though the very act unmade you?
You're a better man than I am, Mister Fred.

Yourself and what it takes to get you

[(Anonymous)]

Look at it one way, you feel selfish because you wouldn't change the world enough to stop yourself existing, even if this helped other people. Look at it the other, you can feel glad you like and value yourself enough that you'll accept whatever was necessary to produce you.

This is something people with traumatic events in their early lives have to think about with personal application as part of survivor guilt -- gosh I said that in such an impersonal way you'd never guess I meant me, eh? But yes, I wouldn't be the person I am without all that stuff, and the person I would be might be better but wouldn't be _me_ and I like who I am and so I accept all that stuff. The Holocaust too, because my father's parents wouldn't have met without it -- but it's a distant abstraction to me compared to other closer more personal stuff.

We're worth having, and here is where we go on from. As the time machine only a thought experiment and not a matter of practical moral engineering, I think that's good enough. The world isn't perfect, and the past isn't changeable, and we're mostly pretty happy being who we are. I think that has to be enough.

Jo Walton (bluejo@vif.com)

P.S. Cherryh's Cyteen is largely about what you would do in the way of repeating events to get yourself back out, though with cloning rather than a time machine.

Re: Yourself and what it takes to get you

[avram]

Hey, Jo! Welcome! Didn't expect to see you here. (Welcome to Fred, too, but I didn't expect you less than I didn't expect Jo.)

I'm not sure I value my present self all that much. Had I a time machine, I'd gladly go back and try to pressure my past self into making all sorts of different decisions that I'd hope would improve my present lot (leaving aside the question of whether that time-travelling self would ever get to experience the modified present), and I don't just mean the stock tips. Not that past-me would take most of the advice, the stubborn, lazy little snot.